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A Discussion of tactics

A run of Georgian three-story office buildings back on to the river just to the west of the Newark Foundry, this is an apparent ill-fated attempt by the bourgeoisie to launch a beachhead south of the river before the fires of industry rendered the area barely habitable to those of refined taste. Formerly nearly derelict these buildings have been bought up an unknown benefactor and turned into an elegant gentleman’s club. There are many stories about what goes on behind the solid black door, it’s membership however remain tight lipped – nothing more than to confirm the excellence of the recently installed French Chef. To the North the buildings back directly onto the river, looking almost mournfully back towards Green Park; to the south thick iron railings run protecting the building from the street and taciturn bailiffs regularly patrol the frontage to move on any who seek to loiter or sponge off guests arriving or leaving.

Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Sir Tristram » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:18 pm

For a moment, Tristram considers this, and then he comments slowly "The advantage of cavalry is the speed at which they can attack. Train them to attack an enemy's weak-point hard and fast, and break away before they become embroiled in a lengthy fight, and they'll do fine. They're there to support infantry and punish already-broken enemies, not to win fights on their own." There's a moment as he gestures, and then he adds "This ties in nicely to the matter of light troops using guns. Considering the slow rate of fire of a gun, if you can bring a cavalry charge in against them they'll break without much struggle. So the infantry need to be dug-in somewhere that cavalry can't get to them, behind barricades and earthworks and such."
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Jedediah Knox » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:20 am

For simplicity I’m just going to assume Jed has been here all along, or popped in near the start but didn’t interrupt.

“Now Ah believe Sir Tristram has a handle on the way things have been going. To say there’s no role for cavalry anymore is unimaginative, and to say there never has been is frankly bizarre. Certainly as weapons and tactics change, naturally the nature of cavalry changes, but so much can equally be said for infantry, artillery, the navy, and so on. For those who don’t know me, prahor to being a captain of industry Ah had the honour serve mah mother country as a captain of cavalry in the Late Unpleasantness across the water. Those of y’all from earlier eras mahght not recognahse the way we were employed, and in fact it’s not unfair to descrahbe us as a hahbrid between cavalry and infantry - the term ‘mounted infantry’ has been suggested.

Our remit was to harry the enemy behahnd their lahnes, often very far behahnd, and to seek a varahety of targets of opportoonity - in many ways, close to the guerrilla warfare previously mentioned. An army that relies entahrely on brute strength is limited in its options, and the agility and speed of deployment that mounted troops can provahde adds a lot of scope to what a general can choose from. Perhaps as professional soldiers mah men were trained and expected to act beyond what mahght have been the norm for a peasant swordsman in tahmes gone bah, Ah don’t know, but never individually. And cavalry poorly deployed have forever been fragile, but strahkin’ at the rahght tahme in the rahght place, devastating. And infantry in appropriate formation remain as difficult to penetrate as ever they have been.

Mah knowledge of ancient warfare comes entahrely from book-learnin’ at the Academy, but if Ah were asked, Ah’d say that the trend Ah’m seeing is toward further and further distinction between infantry, cavalry, and artillery, more specialisation - perhaps reflecting trends in industrialising society itself. More specialisation brings more power is a particular way, but increases greatly the importance of working closely together to emphasahse the strengths of each whahle covering one another’s weaknesses.

So, the trend Ah foresee is greater concentration on tactics to utilahse the combahned, dahverse strengths of the various assets a general has at his disposal.”
Neonate and Whip of clan Ventrue, Deputy Sheriff of the Court of Aquae Sulis.
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Francis Beauclair » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:27 am

Francis smiles at Jebediah as he listens to the smooth southern drawl. So perhaps if i may summarise the purpose of the cavalry is no longer to break the line smashing aside infantry detachment but to act as reavers and bandits off the battlefield falling on the unprepared and underfunded soft underbelly of an army's logistics.

The cavalry have ever been the choice of the sons of the rich and powerful. I wonder perhaps what the lessons learned in rape and plunder will have on the kine and how it will be of use to us. Or perhaps things will change and the rich will send there sons to learn science with the artillery leaving the cavalry to a rougher class of mortal better suited to the harsh realities of gorilla warfare?
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Jedediah Knox » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:08 am

“Ah’m surprahsed to hear you say so, Mr. Beauclair. Mah men came from all walks of lahfe, and never did Ah appreciate any significant difference in the savagery that men can achieve if sufficiently motivated and unrestrained. Perhaps it’s different in a socahety without clear-cut aristocracy.

Ah’ll bow to the first-hand experience of those who’ve seen cavalry smash strong infantry formations in the past, although academically some question hangs over whether that is actually an effective and efficient expenditure of cavalry in any but the most desperate circumstances. However, it cannot be denahed that, to this very day, the very presence of cavalry alters the behaviour of the enemy - infantry are downrahght reluctant to move if the threat of being ridden down exists, so a canny commander will still use them to force his foe into a static position that can be exploited at leisure, such as with artillery.

Perhaps indeed cavalry can be seen as merely preying upon the vulnerable, but ain’t that the ideal deployment of any military unit? We don’t speak of it because it is indeed a distasteful subject, but when there’s anything more than honour on the lahne, we endeavour never to fahght fair.”
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Francis Beauclair » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:33 pm

Forgive me Mr Knox, i was indulging in a little philosophy which is not in line with our topic. I was considering the effect that the outlook granted in military training might have on the kine cavalryman when they turn their hand to other things. Consider perhaps the ideal of the warrior of the distant past, the knight equipped in steel and armour, bound by a strict code of chivalry, faith, and loyalty to a lord or king they are bound to by years of service.

Contrast this with the role proposed for the modern cavalry, operating as part of a small unit outside turned loose to ravage the holdings of their enemy however they see fit, a training that emphasises independence of thought and ruthlessness rather than unquestioning and prompt obedience to orders.

How i wonder will these men behave when they return to be socialised around the common everyday heard
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Sir Tristram » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:59 pm

Tristram tilts his head in curious thought as Beauclair speaks, and then comments "The role of cavalry has always been a fast-moving shock troops, whose job is to punish the enemy's mistakes. Certainly, a knight would be bound by honour, duty and so on but the idea of chivalry applies to an enemy that's defeated and helpless. If they're still in the fight, you take advantage of their weakness or else you lose."
His fingernails continue scratching against the upholstery and, not paying attention to his strength, begin to dig little grooves in the leather. "Really, though, most knights fight on foot. You want your best troops on the front line when blocks of infantry clash. That's where discipline and tactical training really matter. Cavalry is... well, there's a certain exclusivity to it because you need to be able to afford your own horse, but at the end of the day..." He shrugs and comments dismissively "There's little risk and you can get by with less nerve and skill. So it's where you stick your sons when they first go to war. It's exciting and safe, and once they're used to fighting you can take them out of the cavalry and set them into a position of responsibility leading men at arms. That's what actually matters, since you need heavy infantry to hold ground or capture positions, and those are why we're actually fighting."
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Jedediah Knox » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:40 pm

“Safe! Sir Tristram, whahle units of independent rangers such as mah own may not have generally sustained the percentages of casualties and attrition of a lahne infantry unit, a number of units just lahke mahne were wahped out to a man. Deep insahde of enemy territory is downrahght unforgiving, with no clear path of retreat to friendly areas, and it was the speed and agility of our mounts that afforded us survahvability, and a single mistake could cost us everything. All of mah men knew that, and none of us ever felt safe - in fact, Ah’d say Ah felt safer in the numbers of a massed battle.”

Knox appears flustered, and pauses for a deep breath and to adjust his cravat.

“Ah do apologahse for mah demeanour; Ah seem to be taking this a little more personally than Ah expected. For me this stuff was half a lahfetahme ago, but that’s still real fresh compared to y’all, who can adopt a more matured perspective. Perhaps Ah shouldn’t oughta’ve come.”

He stands up and tugs his jacket lapels, uncertain whether to leave, and makes an effort to grin at Beauclair.

“You’ll have to judge for yourself how mah socialisation around the common herd is goin’.”
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Jean-Jacques » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:12 pm

At the young Ventrues comments, Jean-Jacques moves away slightly from the chair he was leaning upon.

“Elders, Ancilla, if we are to truly benefit of the shared experiences of those here present, be they elder, or like Jedediah and myself mere neonates, then I propose that in such matters of how the kine conduct matters of warfare we should be equal, we gathered in the gracious surroundings of Ancilla Francis Beauclair (he bows towards the host) to conclude such that may further the aims of the Camarilla at large.”

He pauses and bows to each fellow kindred in the room

“Those traditions are manifest in all we do, I therefore propose that we hear each other as, in the nature of this debate, equals. And allow for opinion to guide our discussion, rather than enclose it in suffocating fortifications.”

“We, the Kindred are the modern cavalry, we are the tactical forces which can break the fixed notions of the kine armies and tactics, we ourselves, whilst we may or may not choose to ride a beast, we are that which can fix an enemy into a position of weakness, we can take advantage of a weakened foe, cavalry is to the kine a man atop a horse, yet we should perhaps see what picture can be seen from afar.”

He pauses, clearly stirred by unseen thoughts.

“Should Mr Knox not be welcomed by the ensuing debate, then i myself shall also seek to be excused.”

“For my position we are drawing ourselves into the minutiae of the tat is deployed, whereas the greater forces at play on the field offer a greater enlightenment as to where we all, as representatives of the Ivory Tower may draw inspiration and guidance from the successes and failures of the past”

With no little effort, Jean-Jacques sits in a nearby chair and looks at Jedediah alone.
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Francis Beauclair » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:10 pm

Francis smiles watching as the two neonates hackles rise. He replies in a soothing tone;

"Gentlemen, calm yourselves, i asked all here to speak honestly and frankly of your knowledge and understanding in the manner of warriors, I will not speak for my other honoured guests but that all i can see is Mr Knox doing this with admirable spirit and clarity. I feel confidant that we can all do that without troubling ourselves with concepts of equality or other modern fads."
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Re: A Discussion of tactics

Postby Jedediah Knox » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:51 pm

Knox, perhaps alarmingly to those present, blushes in embarrassment, further underlining his extreme youth amongst kindred.

“Gentlemen, you misunderstand me. Ancilla Beauclair, you know well Ah understand and value mah place in our society, and fully appreciate the reasons for it. Ah never intended to implah Ah was suggesting leaving our values asahde.

It is only that this discussion is scratching at scars that are still fresher than Ah expected for me, Ah confess making me a mahte uncomfortable. With the greatest regret Ah believe Ah fahnd mahself unable to discourse dispassionately on these topics.

If y’all gentlemen consider this particular conversation worthy of continuing at this moment, Ah shall regretfully beg to be excused. If, however, Ah may be so forward as to propose a change of topic: outside of the realm of employing the kahne in proxy fahghts, it remains opaque to me how battle amongst the kindred is conducted. Perhaps veterans of belligerence between our kahnd can educate me some on what to expect if the unthinkable should occur?”
Neonate and Whip of clan Ventrue, Deputy Sheriff of the Court of Aquae Sulis.
Shane, out-of-character.
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